eurealist.co.uk

Quotes!
I did not expect that this particular pro European would try to argue against the words of such a leading light in the European movement as Monnet. So I was to say the least, a little surprised to find the old argument resurrected because it has been disproved so many times, not by Eusceptics but by the Euro-federalist themselves that I though they had given up.

But I suppose an old argument is as good as any when the intention is to confuse and misdirect.

Nice quotes - but I suspect you would be the first to complain were I to suggest that all Eurosceptics through the same as Robert Kilroy-Silk. Monnet and Heath are not representative of all pro-Europeans…

It is also worth noting that the drive to Federalism, though certainly initially an aim of some of the originators of the project, has long since been abandoned by all but the most fervent pro-Europeans, except as a very, very vague future ideal - much like the concept of the Federation in Star Trek… A federal European super state simply doesn’t make any sense. In 200, maybe 300 years perhaps, but for not the forseeable future - certainly for our lifetimes, not a hope in hell.

There is no federalist conspiracy. It’s simply too silly an idea under the present realities: no political elites in any of the countries of the EU would be willing to give up their power - as would inevitably have to happen for a Federal Europe to kick off - even if the people were willing to let them.

None of which is borne out by the facts
Here is an earlier quote:
No government dependent upon a democratic vote could possibly agree in advance to the sacrifice, which any adequate plan must involve. The people must be led slowly and unconsciously into the abandonment of their traditional economic defences, not asked to make changes of which they may not at first recognise the advantages themselves.
Design for Freedom, largely written by Peter Thorneycroft MP, 1947

The fusion (of economic functions) would compel nations to fuse their sovereignty into that of a single European State.
Jean Monnet, founder of the European Movement, 3 April 1952

Monnet is one of the most revered EU leaders who set out the details on how the Superstate could be achieved when it became clear that his political union was not going to be accepted by the French government. It is therefore perhaps a little unfair to equate him with RKS and to suggest that he as an arch federalist has the same effect in that direction as RKS has in the other, when everybody accepts that it is his, “Monnet’s Method” which has been the system which has been, and is still being used to forge a federal EU.

The Monnet System it has now been accepted, could be actually standing in the way of further integration as it is becoming increasingly difficult to hide the real reason for the integration. So we now get a slightly different argument that is we must work together etc. but the direction is the same toward a united Europe with one government. This has been and still is the object of the European program everything is directed toward that object and nothing will be allowed to stand in its way. .

Ruth Lea;
In the early 1950s, ministers from the six members of the ECSC drafted a constitution for a new form of democratic government to control the planned European Defence Community (EDC). Monnet had intended that the EDC would be a parallel organisation to the ECSC. This so-called European Political

As the powers of Brussels have progressively increased, so the sovereign powers of the member states have progressively diminished. (And, incidentally, there is no such thing as “ shared or pooled sovereignty” . A country either has sovereignty or it does not and what some politicians refer to as “ shared or pooled sovereignty” is actually “ lost sovereignty” or “delegated sovereignty” .) But there has never been an open and fair debate in the UK about this. There should be one

The history of the EU, and the Britain’s difficult relationship with the EU, is characterised by two main features. Firstly, there has been the ever-increasing European economic and political integration driven by the vision of the Franco- German alliance.
Secondly, there has been incomprehension, partly, and deceit, partly, by the British Government and its civil service right from the “ start” . Doubtless aware that the people would willingly accept nothing more integrationist than a free trade area, pro-EEC politicians of both main parties claimed that the EEC was
little more than just that. It is harder to think of a more grotesque deceit. In addition, there has been the bizarre way in which successive British governments have claimed to be modelling “Europe” along British lines as a Europe of democratic nation states, along with the “Anglo-Saxon” model of running the economy and free trade. Such a vision of Europe has never been on the cards and is most unlikely ever to be on the cards.5 So Britain has been living a partial lie about the EU and the country finds itself in a permanent dilemma about its EU membership.

Community (EPC) would be able to levy taxes and would establish a Common Market.12 The collapse of the EDC, voted down by France (the other five had agreed to it), led to the EPC being shelved.

The argument denying federalism is not supported by EU history which has been a continual move towards a federal EU, every treaty has passed more power to the EEC, EC, and EU. neither is the denial supported by the present day EU elites, so with respect may I suggest that anyone trying to argue against the federalist intentions is going to have to convince not only Eusceptics but the federalist themselves.

In ten years, 80% of the laws on the economy and social policy will be
passed at the European and not the national level. We are not going to
manage to take all the decisions needed between now and 1995 unless we
see the beginnings of a European Government.
Jacques Delors, 1988, to the European Parliament.

We want European Union, the United States of Europe.
Chancellor Kohl, on the fall of the Berlin Wall, 1989.

We’re not here just to make a single market, but a political union.
Jacques Delors, 1993

“The day of the nation state is over.”
Roman Herzog, president of Germany, September 1996
In order to ensure its political future, the European Union must go beyond
the completion of the internal market and the introduction of the single
currency and move towards a real political union.
Resolution of the European Parliament, 22 October 1998

The European Union Treaty introduces a new and decisive stage in the
process of [the] European Union which within a few years will lead to the
creation of what the founding fathers of modern Europe dreamed of after
the war, the United States of Europe.
Chancellor Kohl, on the completion of the Maastricht Treaty, 1992

This Treaty marks a new stage in the process of creating an ever closer
union among the peoples of Europe, where decisions are taken as closely as
possible to the citizens… the process of creating an ever closer Union…in
order to advance European integration.
Treaty on European Union, 1992

If we are to meet this historic challenge, and integrate the new member
states without substantially denting the EU’s capacity for action, we must
put into place the last brick in the building of European integration, namely
political integration…this latest stage of European Union…will depend
decisively on France and Germany.
Joschka Fischer, German Foreign Minister, 12 May 2000

The EU is on the brink of becoming a European federation by the year
2010 although this Europe would not be a purely federal state. I expect no
opposition from Britain. Mr Blair signalled in his Warsaw speech earlier
this month that he wants to participate in shaping Europe and he is a
convinced European. But we have to be realistic. Naturally, Mr Blair has to
work under certain given conditions. A British PM who declared himself in
favour of federation would create huge problems for himself at home.
Nonetheless I feel sure that Britain will fall into line. It is a fact that Britain
has always made its decision on a pragmatic basis when the pragmatic
reasons for a positive step have predominated.
Joschka Fischer, German Foreign Minister, 16 October 2000

The Union stands at a crossroads, a defining moment in its
existence. The unification of Europe is near. At long last, Europe is
on its way to becoming one big family.
Laeken Declaration setting up the Convention on the Future of Europe,
December 2001

Federalism might make eurosceptics laugh but, with the creation of the euro,
the halfway stage would be reached. Four key organisms would have a federal
or quasi-federal status: the Central Bank, the Court of Justice, The Commission
and the Parliament. Only one institution is missing: a federal government.
Jack Lang, Foreign Affairs spokesman, French National Assembly, 22 July 1997
A European currency will lead to member nations transferring their
sovereignty over financial and wage policy as well as monetary affairs. It is
an illusion to think that states can hold on to their autonomy.
Hans Tietmeyer, President of the Bundesbank, 1991

A free trade zone – precisely what we have been trying to avoid for the last
25 years.
Yves-Thibault de Silguy, commissioner for economic and monetary affairs, on the
consequences of a delay in EMU, 1997

The single currency is the greatest abandonment of sovereignty since the
foundation of the European Community…It is a decision of an essentially
political nature. We need this United Europe…we must never forget that
the euro is an instrument for this project.
Filipe Gonzales, former Spanish PM, May 1998

The process of monetary union goes hand in hand, must go hand in hand,
with political integration and ultimately political union. EMU is, and always
was meant to be, a stepping stone on the way to a united Europe.
Wim Duisenberg, ex-president, ECB

We must now face the difficult task of moving towards a single economy, a
single political entity…For the first time since the fall of the Roman Empire
we have the opportunity to unite Europe.

Romano Prodi, European Parliament, 13 October 1999
The introduction of the common currency was in no way just an economic
decision. Monetary Union is demanding that we Europeans press ahead
resolutely with political integration.
Gerhard Schröder, 30 August 1999

The introduction of the euro is probably the most important integrating
step since the beginning of the unification process. It is certain that the
times of individual national efforts regarding employment policies, social
and tax policies are definitely over. This will require us to finally bury some
erroneous ideas of national sovereignty.
Gerhard Schröder, Chancellor of Germany, The Hague, 19 January 1999

One must never forget that monetary union, which the two of us were the
first to propose more than a decade ago, is ultimately a political
project…Monetary union is a federative project that needs to be
accompanied & followed by other steps.
Giscard d’Estaing and Helmut Schmidt, International Herald Tribune, 14 October 1997

The euro is a conquest of sovereignty. It gives us a margin of manoeuvre.
It’s a tool to help us master globalisation and help us resist irrational shifts
in the market.
Dominique Strauss-Kahn, French finance minister, January 1999

The process of monetary union goes hand in hand, must go hand in hand,
with political integration and ultimately political union. EMU is, and always
was meant to be, a stepping stone on the way to a united Europe.
Wim Duisenberg, ex-president, ECB

A European currency will lead to member nations transferring their
sovereignty over financial and wage policy as well as monetary affairs. It is
an illusion to think that states can hold on to their autonomy.
Hans Tietmeyer, President of the Bundesbank, 1991