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Professor Menon is concerned that political parties only use referenda as a political tactic not constitutional principle does this include the referenda for the Scottish Parliament, Welsh Assembly London assembly etc, other than which all parties promised a referendum of the treaty which failed and Lisbon does everything that treaty did.

The other reason referenda are sniffed at is because they are notoriously bad at providing answers to the question actually asked. And people would vote either according to their view of the Union as a whole, or to make a point about something else entirely.

Historically with EU referenda if the answer is no, then obviously the people have voted about something else, because they are invited to vote again. If however the answer is yes, then obviously the people have voted on the question asked because they are never asked again.

The other point is are our representatives any better? Would they only vote on what is in the treaty, or would they use their vote as a bargaining chip on another subject. That of course is always assuming that they have a free vote in the first place, it is fine to be sniffy about referendum and make up excuses for the ordinary people not to  allowed a voice, but at least our representatives should be allowed a free vote and be constrained by the same rules that barred the ordinary vote ie. they may only vote on the treaty and not barter their votes.

As one of the people I resent and totally reject Professors Menon`s suggestion that I should not be allowed to consider the whole EU but be confined to only considering this particular treaty. I for instance would want to re-visit the Treaty on European Union, I did not consent to becoming a citizen of the EU and would have voted against that treaty on that subject alone, as I was denied a vote I reserve the right to vote against any EU treaty when I am given a chance.

It seems the argument is; let us just ignore every undemocratic move that has been taken in the creation of the present EU and just concern ourselves with the treaty on the table at the moment. If that treaty includes unacceptable clauses which were initially in another treaty, then I argue we the people have every right to look at the EU as a whole.

The argument made is one about an EU I simply do not recognise, it is not a Confederation of trading states as described by Professor Menon, in a confederation citizens always remain only citizens of the member state, it is the moves for deeper political integration which demands the question of citizenship to be answered.

From John Redwood